I’m not disagreeing with you but anything we do is not to support the bar. Please everyone be aware the bar are not striking for us. If they succeed the LAA will not include us except if Higher Court advocates.
You are right the LAA needs to be made aware of what we would want but we don’t even know if an independent body is being set up to review what we receive say on an annual basis.
In my view if the LAA agreed to that we would have a future even though at present things will remain tight.
Does anyone know if this was agreed?
All the Best
Margaret Frame ( Partner )
Brooke Lavington Law
17 – 21 George Street
Croydon
Surrey
CR0 1LA
Telephone : 07939 088264
Email : maggie@brookelavingtonlaw.co.uk
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From: members@mail.lccsa.org.uk [mailto:members@mail.lccsa.org.uk] On Behalf Of Alexia Nicol
Sent: 24 August 2022 10:05
To: vpfco@btinternet.com; K K; Joe Mensah-Dankwah; members@mail.lccsa.org.uk
Subject: RE: Strike Action
I have been reading the emails with interest. I agree it would be helpful to see if there is some agreed action we could take to support the bar beyond what we have done so far. A further meeting or perhaps just an update of anything going on behind the scenes that could be shared would be appreciated. If the government do start to listen, we should be at the table and clear on what solicitors are asking for too.
These are very interesting times indeed and I hope you are all keeping well.
Alexia
Alexia Nicol
Solicitor
Bullivant Law Ltd
Regulated by The Solicitors Regulation Authority SRA ID No: 557060
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Mail: anicol@bullivantlaw.com
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From: members@mail.lccsa.org.uk <members@mail.lccsa.org.uk>
Sent: 23 August 2022 08:15
To: K K <kamal.elnour@gmail.com>; Joe Mensah-Dankwah <Joemensah@foresterssolicitors.co.uk>
Cc: members@mail.lccsa.org.uk
Subject: Re: Strike Action
If we do not materially support the strike, the process will limp along for longer. We owe a moral duty to support our brothers and sisters at the bar.
The public do not know what we do, especially defendants, but others have no idea either. If we take action, there will be consequences which will bring us to the attention of the public.
Without defence lawyers defendants will either be remanded or would have to be released. There will be uproar.
At the moment due to the lack of any support by solicitors ,I have not heard of any defendant being released from custody.
The action must be effective to achieve a speedy outcome.
-------- Original message --------
From: K K <kamal.elnour@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2022, 17:24
To: Joe Mensah-Dankwah <Joemensah@foresterssolicitors.co.uk>
Cc: members@mail.lccsa.org.uk
Subject: Re: Strike ActionExactly this Joe.
There are certain offences which will attract more media attention like those I suggested earlier than others - it needn't be all, just more than burglary to get going.
If we refuse domestic, sexual and emergency worker assaults as a starting point and declare that next will be a refusal to represent knife crime and county lines drug cases I'm sure this will have an impact in the media.
Like you said, still represent them at police station and as duty in the first instance but going forward for trial or sentence refuse and do not apply for legal aid. That should fulfill contact obligations, keep some money coming in and also make a statement of intent.
On Mon, 22 Aug 2022, 17:18 Joe Mensah-Dankwah, <Joemensah@foresterssolicitors.co.uk> wrote:
I don’t agree that we are helpless. The contract does not trump our responsibility as solicitors and the SRA principles we have to operate under. We are entitled to refuse to do work that does not remunerate us adequately. If I fulfil my duty to attend to clients as 24-hour duty solicitor, there is no obligation on me then to apply for legal aid to represent those who are charged. I still get a fixed fee which helps my business to tick over.
If I fulfil my duty to represent defendants as court duty, there is no obligation for me to apply for legal aid to represent them at the sentence or in the crown court. I still get £55 an hour (or whatever insulting sum) that allows my business tick over. If we all agreed to take such measures, we would be making short term sacrifices, but soon the mags will know what it is to have lots of unrepresented defendants appearing before them, and the crown courts will clog up likewise. How many poachers will break ranks? How many courts will the poachers be able to cover? Or are we so unwilling to help ourselves that we don’t even want to find out! It seems to me that we want to see action that gets us a better deal, but we don’t want to make the sacrifice that it takes.
Regards,
Joe Mensah-Dankwah
Foresters Solicitors Limited
Suite 19 East London Office Centre
80-86 St Mary Road
Walthamstow
London E17 9RE
T: 020 8521 5999
F: 020 8521 5996
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Foresters Solicitors Limited is registered in England and Wales, with registered office at Suite 19, East London Office Centre, 80-86 St Mary Road, Walthamstow, London E17 9RE. Company Number 6650930. Directors: Joe Mensah-Dankwah, Alan Hardy Boulton, John Yiannourides. This firm is authorised and regulated by the Solicitors Regulation Authority.
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From: members@mail.lccsa.org.uk <members@mail.lccsa.org.uk> On Behalf Of Maggie Frame
Sent: 22 August 2022 17:04
To: members@mail.lccsa.org.uk
Subject: FW: Strike Action
Ideas please as to what we can really do that will hurt them and not breach our contract.
Only owners have contracts the rest of you don’t but you have certain requirements to remain duty solicitors.
The Bar do not have these restrictions. They don’t really contract with the LAA. They work in the main for solicitors and are paid for crown court work by the Legal Aid agency.
That is the problem. For us at least.
Our problem is our Contracts to provide duty solicitors for duty work and all the draconian rules and regulations we have to ensure we do to be allowed to do this work.
Perhaps expert Counsel Should consider the Contract which is set to become even worse this time round?
It is set by them for their benefit and we have no choice but to sign or move to another area of law.
We really are between, ‘A Rock and a hard place’.
We really should all just not sign their new contracts but we don’t even trust each other enough to do this; its not really due to malice but comparing us to Barristers is like comparing apples and oranges.
Our situation is the same only in that we are badly paid but apart from that we are very different and our regime is very different.
All or any ideas welcome but it is very difficult and that’s why they have brought us to our knees.
Perhaps we would all be better off just working for them? We would be better off financially but we would not be an independent group and Justice would not be well served.
All the best.
Maggie
From: members@mail.lccsa.org.uk [mailto:members@mail.lccsa.org.uk] On Behalf Of Maggie Frame
Sent: 22 August 2022 16:20
To: members@mail.lccsa.org.uk
Subject: RE: Strike Action
I don’t think anyone doing this job could be accused of living in cloud cuckoo land; the pain and frustration is too real
From: members@mail.lccsa.org.uk [mailto:members@mail.lccsa.org.uk] On Behalf Of K K
Sent: 22 August 2022 15:24
To: members@mail.lccsa.org.uk
Cc: Jonathan Black
Subject: Re: Strike Action
I agree,
Definitely man of us are feeling apathetic about it all. To be fair - I had missed the emails about meetings and I'm usually quite good at seeing them, it could be a portion of members had the same issue.
Notwithstanding all of the above and that we are fed up and of like mind on all of this....what are we going to do?
The conversation is great and supportive - but are there any actual plans by the LCCSA to escalate things?
Is there another meeting already fixed for further discussion? If not, can another take place soon?
If someone official from the LCCSA can respond it would be most helpful and appreciated.
On Mon, 22 Aug 2022, 14:29 Joe Mensah-Dankwah, <Joemensah@foresterssolicitors.co.uk> wrote:
That’s what is depressing about the matter. We (I say we, I’m heading for the exit door), folks are in a boat being carried downstream by strong currents. A bit of concerted effort can divert its course. But they are too busy looking to catch small fish whizzing past in the opposite direction to notice the precipice coming along… I live in “cloud cuckoo land” I was told recently for suggesting a bit of reality checking on our situation.
Regards,
Joe Mensah-Dankwah
Foresters Solicitors Limited
Suite 19 East London Office Centre
80-86 St Mary Road
Walthamstow
London E17 9RE
T: 020 8521 5999
F: 020 8521 5996
DX: 32016 Walthamstow
Foresters Solicitors Limited is registered in England and Wales, with registered office at Suite 19, East London Office Centre, 80-86 St Mary Road, Walthamstow, London E17 9RE. Company Number 6650930. Directors: Joe Mensah-Dankwah, Alan Hardy Boulton, John Yiannourides. This firm is authorised and regulated by the Solicitors Regulation Authority.
This email is confidential and may be privileged. It is for the use of the named recipients only. If you have received it in error, please notify us immediately and delete it from your computer system. Please do not copy or disclose its contents to any person or body.
From: Jonathan Black <jonathanb@bsbsolicitors.co.uk>
Sent: 22 August 2022 13:58
To: Joe Mensah-Dankwah <Joemensah@foresterssolicitors.co.uk>; K K <kamal.elnour@gmail.com>; members@mail.lccsa.org.uk
Subject: RE: Strike Action
I am not sure it’s so much that Joe , I think there is general apathy, a willingness to give up crime rather than fight for a better a deal , some hope that the Govt’s so called 15% is better than a poke I the eye with a sharp stick despite the fact that none of it will be backdated.
How many more years can people sign up to anti social work with anti social hours for anti social pay ?
The LCCSA leadership have tried to rally the troops , but the numbers who turned up at the ,meeting at red lion square training afternoon were poor , the numbers who joined the zooms were even more disappointing . There needs to be critical mass beyond the half a dozen or so usual voices on here . I know how strongly the leadership feel about this but there does not seem to be a similar strength of feeling on the ground . We would all like to be proven wrong .
Jon
Jonathan Black ( Partner)
BSB solicitors
2 John Street
London
WC1N 2ES
0207 8373456
Criminal Defence Solicitors | Criminal Lawyers | BSB Solicitors
Suite 19 East London Office Centre
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