Thank you all for taking time to debate this.  To the firm that have been supposedly reported to the LAA.  I doubt you will be alone but I think under protocal 4 exception 3 you may be ok as your member of staff is pregnant and that is a vulnerable group who often are unvaccinated and therefore the custody sergeant should really have agreed as he cannot ensure her safety and so I suggest you read the protocal 4 again which as far as I know we are still using and be ready with your arguments.

No one, if they are exercising sense, would expect a pregnant woman to attend custody whilst we have no clue what is happening. In relation to the Omicron variant and I think the custody sergeant instead of reporting you should have been referring to a superintendent and finding a way to allow you to deal remotely.

Also as only women can be pregnant it may be that if this is not an exception it goes against the sex discrimination act.

Just a few pointers which might help you resolve this issue.

I don’t think you have anything to worry about in reality and custody sergeant might report you but your contract manger must understand why if they contact you.

All the best

Margaret Frame ( Partner )
Brooke Lavington Law
17 – 21 George Street
Croydon
Surrey
CR0 1LA

Telephone : 07939 088264
Email : maggie@brookelavingtonlaw.co.uk
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-----Original Message-----
From: members@mail.lccsa.org.uk [mailto:members@mail.lccsa.org.uk] On Behalf Of ashley@ashleysmith.org.uk
Sent: 13 December 2021 18:59
To: '"Elena A."'
Cc: members@mail.lccsa.org.uk; 'Margaret Frame'
Subject: RE: Have LCCSA/CLSA organised a meeting to discuss moving back to remote attendance?

Thankyou Maggie I was about to post something similar

I was wondering where our professional bodies were or whether advice/direction was being given that I was somehow missing?

We are being left in the most ridiculous limbo.

Like Natalie I had an officer today assuming we had reverted to remote and incredulous that we still planned to attend the station...when I explained he was very sympathetic to our position.

I honestly do not see where the argument that remote does not work comes from... I experienced no problems of a technical nature that could not be overcome nor have I been left with the feeling that somehow I did not do the best for my client and the result of remote attendance resulted in an adverse outcome.

But even if it is not 100% perfect for all at what point does our health become irrelevant?
I am very tired of being the unimportant dirt on everyone else's shoes.

Who did remote attendance at police stations nor work for? The custody sarge? The detainee? Do their preferences trump our health?

I see what Natalie has said about cleaning and that is welcome...but the air you are sharing with all and sundry at close quarters, often for over an hour is not being filtered- and that is where the real problem lies, as far as I am concerned.

Courts could be more problematic as the sound system is so unreliable as Maggie pointed out. For a complicated matter I personally would probably still attend in person but it is my choice and is because I feel I can manage any potential risk at Court- keep distance, move around, step outside the building.

Everyone will have a choice to attend no matter what the protocol but as a profession we should be looking out for ourselves, because absolutely no one else will, and especially  the more vulnerable amongst us.

I would like to see a return to remote but first I would really like the professional bodies to be vocal and join in this conversation because the silence is deafening from where I am standing.

Ros

Ashley Smith & Co Limited
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-----Original Message-----
From: members@mail.lccsa.org.uk <members@mail.lccsa.org.uk>
Sent: 13 December 2021 18:31
To: Maggie Frame <maggie@brookelavingtonlaw.co.uk>
Cc: Keima Payton <keima@paytonslaw.co.uk>; members@mail.lccsa.org.uk
Subject: Re: Have LCCSA/CLSA organised a meeting to discuss moving back to remote attendance?

Thanks Maggie. By way of update, I covered Thames and Redbridge duties this weekend: Bethnal Green are absolutely not interested in any suggestion that attendances be carried out remotely whereas at Freshwharf, an Inspector believed that remote attendances were to begin from Monday 13th. No one seems to know what is going on.

Elena Abraham
FOR LEWIS NEDAS LAW

> On 13 Dec 2021, at 18:04, Maggie Frame <maggie@brookelavingtonlaw.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Good evening to you all,
>
> This issue is arising as we are behind the government's announcements.  Everything is already starting and we don’t know where we stand.
>
> Our representatives have regular meeting with the police and the other groups. They have done this for some time during the pandemic.
>
> As our representatives, you are not moving fast enough. This is placing hardworking solicitors under a great deal of stress.  Please at least tell us what is happening.
>
> As for the rest of my colleagues no one can critisise you for safeguarding your staff member.  If it was a court that agreed this then a decision was made to allow you to assist your client that is the end of it and so you will be paid by the LAA for the work you have done.
>
> If you simply refused to attend the hearing because your staff member was sick then you wont be paid for that attendance but you will be paid overall for the case if you have legal aid.
>
> At Court at the present time you apply to the court and the court can decide to allow you to attend remotely if there is a good reason(pregnancy) is a good reason and if the hearing is one that can in their view be dealt with remotely.
>
> Ive just read the article claiming that the remote system didn’t work ;its more involved than that.  I advice all of you to read the actual report.  The overall feeling was that most representatives and others found it helpful it was only the judiciary that said it added to their stress but it was pointed out that this could be resolved by ensuring communication between those at court and those dealing remote.
>
> I urge you to read the actual document and make up your own mind.
>
> Our position is this at the moment; we don’t know what has been agreed or is going to be agreed between our representative bodies and the police, AA service, Courts and others.
>
> The statement from the LCCSA as to what they are trying to obtain is not enough and we need our position to be brought into line with what the government is asking us to do. Its simple if you can work from home do so.  We can and we should.
>
> In both the Court and the police station we must be allowed to deal remotely. That is the only way footfall will be reduced.
>
> In the court all matters except perhaps Trials and sentencing hearing should automatically be remote. This has been agreed in the crown court and so it must be workable in the magistrates court. The courts must be told that where with certain allowances and alterations sentencing hearing and some Trials could also be remote they should be. The CVP system has one issue and only 1 and that is that it is difficult to hear everyone in court because the court will not improve its systems so that we can hear properly.  They don’t want remote because it forces communication with the representative before the hearing and in reality the issues they have with it also occur when we attend its just that they don’t have to do anything to resolve it as its left to the defence to somehow obtain the evidence etc.
>
> When did any prosecutor ever stop dealing with their list to agree anything with the defence.  Perhaps in Trials they do but there is ample facility to achieve this remotely.
>
> I have been told that our representatives get all emails sent to the members email list as they are members so they are aware of what is happening at the front.  They are reading our emails just as we are.
>
> Please, Please clarify what is happening and when its going to happen before its too late.
>
> The government wants this in place quickly to allow time for all age groups to be vaccinated.  Why are we not assisting with this.
>
> Kind Regards
>
>
> Margaret Frame ( Partner )
> Brooke Lavington Law
> 17 – 21 George Street
> Croydon
> Surrey
> CR0 1LA
>
>
> Telephone : 07939 088264
> Email : maggie@brookelavingtonlaw.co.uk Secure email :
> margaret.frame@bll.cjsm.net
>
> The contents of this email and any attachements is strictly confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the addressee(s) only.  Accesss to this email by anyone else is unauthorised. If you received this email in error please notify the sender immediately by reply email, or telephone 07939 088264/ 07969 567978 and delete it from your system. Please note that if you are not the intended receipient, you must not copy, distribute or otherwise act on any part of this email or its’ attachments.
>
> Please note that the confidentiality of email communication is not warranted. Although we have taken precautions to ensure that this email and any attachments are free from virues, we would advise you that it is your responsibility to be sure this is the case by running your own checks. Brooke Lavington Law accepts no liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses.
>
>
> Authorised and regulated by the Solicitors Regulation Authority
> Solicitors Regulation Authority No 538264
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: members@mail.lccsa.org.uk [mailto:members@mail.lccsa.org.uk] On
> Behalf Of Keima Payton
> Sent: 13 December 2021 16:23
> To: listA@lists.clsa.co.uk; Members
> Subject: Have LCCSA/CLSA organised a meeting to discuss moving back to remote attendance?
>
> I also would like to know if there is a date by which the Police (or more importantly the LAA as what we really want to know is whether we will get paid if we do remote attendance) are meeting with defence representatives to discuss this issue. Has anyone organised a meeting/call regarding a return to remote attendances yet? People are dying and our current PM is telling people not to assume the new variant (which is spreading) isn’t a killer. How long must we wait for an answer?
>
> In London police frequently ask if we are remote as they seem to
> prefer it to. I have no idea why this is taking so long to organise...
> people are dying and we rock up to unventilated people packed rooms
> daily and the variant is spreading at an alarming rate. Tick Tock
>
> Keima
>
> Richard - Even if police allow remote you can't claim for them. So this may be worth bearing in mind if you have an audit coming up...
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard Graham <Richard@grahamsolicitors.co.uk>
> <clsa-egroup@talk.netatlantic.com>
> Sent: 13 December 2021 15:53
> To: listA@lists.clsa.co.uk
> Subject: Police station protocol
>
> Dear all,
>
> Especially those on the committee.
>
> Do we have any concrete plans or meetings in place to discuss the latest police station advice regarding attendance?
>
> I know the LCCSA produced something but not the CLSA as far as I’m
> aware. (Happy to be corrected)
>
> We have had an issue whereby I refused to send a member of my staff as she was pregnant. Has been doing them remotely and the issue arose. I had no one else to send and the police decided to make it a huge issue.  Client was an old own client so good as gold - luckily.
>
> Apparently we have been reported to the LAA by the police for not following the national protocol.
>
> I didn’t enter into any national protocol. And I can’t delegate my responsibility as an employer for their health and safety.
>
> We really could do with some clarification soon to cover the Xmas period.
>
> I’ve been asked what contingency plans we had in place because the police have to have one… I said we don’t have that many staff; and we aren’t duty bound to put ourselves in harms way.
>
>
> Richard
> Sent from my iPhone
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